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Seminary – was it worth it?

by Lon on June 19, 2008


(Photo by ambery)

Before I begin, I need to say that I’ve never been a fan of any schooling system I’ve ever been a part of.

- In high school, I was a 90s student but on academic probation for missing too many classes.

- I scraped by university, passionless for my engineering degree, and was probably in the bottom five of my graduating class.

- I wasn’t at the very bottom of the barrel because after my third year I had decided to go to seminary, and realized they didn’t just let you in by grace.  I had to work my butt off in my final year just to raise my overall mark to a C+

So here’s the bottom line now that I’m done seminary

- 27 classes – not all of my choosing

- over a thousand hours in class

- at least two thousand hours spent reading and writing papers

- 440 hours of supervised ministry experience for the internship requirements

- $30,000 on tuition and books

- I left a corporate job I loved – Where I worked from home most of the time, had opportunities to travel, and interacted with people every single day.

- I made 60-70k+ a year depending on bonuses/commission – it’s been two years now so that’s $140,000… gone.  I don’t even want to think about what might have been over the course of a lifetime.

So was it worth it?

Is each lecture really worth $80 to (for the most part) passively listen to?  Is it worth the drive and the time away from family?  Is it worth the stress and uncertainty placed upon loved ones?

Could over a hundred thousand dollars be given elsewhere, that could have produced far greater kingdom impact?  Could I have used all that time to better engage the world rather than other seminarians?

There was a lot of assigned reading, but I probably read more and learned more from personal readings than class readings.  Could I have learned and grown to where I am today, without seminary?

I guess the other question is, would I have?

I really don’t know if I would have done something nobler with my time or money.  If you’re at a stage where you’re deeply engaging God, the Scriptures, His people, His mission, and His calling in your life, my goodness, don’t go to seminary.

At least I wouldn’t.  Not with where I am today.

Note that I am indebted and incredibly thankful that I had the opportunity to be in a seminary.  Who on earth has the luxury to sit around and contemplate the things of God?

I still feel like a noobie follower of Jesus, but I got an idea of where I’m going and where to go for help and what I need to get there.  But seminary, at least in its traditional sense, is definitely not a requirement on the journey going forward.

Seminary’s will always have their place.  Go if you feel God’s calling you in that direction (but realize it’s only a structure/form/place of learning, and typically God calls us to deeper things than that).

When I get some time I’ll probably compile a list of books, articles, experiences, resources that I think could just about replace the traditional seminary.

With all that being said, a price just cannot be placed upon time and space to grow, friendship, an environment that fosters learning, divine encounters, and wisdom from local prophets.

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Latest Links…

by Lon on January 31, 2008

Nothing to say today.

Just some random links I’ve come across the last while

The Toronto Star – a secular newspaper surprisingly did a segment on church planting movements
The lifecyle of a blog post
How Erwin McManus got his last name
Barack Obama – Article by Caroline Kennedy, and interview with Christianity Today
Young preacher and his slip of the tongue
A new business magazine in Canada also has a church planting article
Steve Addison has his recent eBook on the next thousand churches available here
Pagan Christianity
Brian Mclaren guest blogging at pomomusings
Monday Morning Insight’s top ten books for church planters
Ed Stetzer seems to have revamped the newchurches.com site
Article on Starbucks vs. McDonald’s
If you’re in Toronto, the public library now offers free digital rentals

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Having it all…

by Lon on November 21, 2007

Yesterday I had a coffee catching up with my friend Alan (who’s also a young married adult with a master’s degree from seminary)

Where some people struggle with not having enough in life and the injustice of it all, Alan and I struggle with feeling of being unbelievably blessed and the weight of expectations that seem to come along with it.

Ever feel like you have so much in the way of resources, opportunity, talent, and relationships, that you better do something about it all?

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Mosaic Movement Resources

by Lon on October 25, 2006

This is a collection of resources related to the Mosaic movement out of L.A. It has been a tremendous impact on my life and my visions for church planting.

Notes, Articles & Interviews
Audio Resources
Video Resources
Mosaic Affiliate Sites
Books
Miscellaneous

I’ve got a bunch of other resources (CD’s, DVD’s, etc.) that I’ve bought over the years, that I’m tempted to put up, but I don’t want to infringe on any copyright issues. If you’re in the area, you’re more than welcome to borrow them off of me. All the resources here are just what’s readily available on the web. I’ll try to keep this post updated as I stumble across things. Let me know if you’re aware of others.

Here’s a snap of my wife and I as we visit Mosaic LA (at the previous night club) and connect for a moment with Erwin Raphael McManus

Mosaic Collage

NOTES, ARTICLES & INTERVIEWS

Scribble live group notes on Unleashing Beauty with Dave Gibbons and Erwin McManus
Notes on Erwin McManus talk at National leadership forum
Great notes from a discussion between Erwin McManus and Dave Gibbons
Interview with Erwin on Hot and sweaty pastor Nov/08
Article on the journey of Erwin McManus
The Ooze Article – Erwin on film and storytelling
Article on Catalyst by Eric Bryant on “The art of woo
Article by Erwin McManus on Focusing on Mission 2007
Article on the meaning of emerging by Erwin McManus June 2007
Interview with Erwin McManus on Swimming Upstream 2007
Article by Erwin McManus on being broken and fragmented 2007
Dancing from the pulpit – Article on Mosaic
Article on Comfortable Christianity and Mosaic
Notes from Humana 2.0 here, here, here, here, here, and here.
For a limited time only – preview articles and interviews from the Mosaic Alliance for free.
Article by Eric Bryant on MANAGING THE CREATIVE BEAST
Interview with Erwin McManus on Infuze 2006
Article
on whether Mosaic and Bethel are part of the ‘emerging church’ by Alex McManus 2006
Article on the history and culture of mosaic through an Asian American lens
Article
and another article on Erwin McManus at Catalyst 2005
Article
about Erwin McManus and Creativity 2005
Interview with Erwin McManus on thinking differently
Q&A
with Erwin by La Bodega 2004
Response article to me from Mosaic insider Soundchick 2004 part 1 and 2
Article on wholeness by Erwin McManus
Article on friendship by Erwin McManus
Article on a cause-driven church by Erwin McManus
Article and video by fresh ministry on postmodern ministry
Article in Relevant Magazine on Erwin McManus’ Barbarian Way
Alex McManus on pray247 interview
Article on Origins 2004, Recap on Origins 2005, Origins 2006 notes
Outline of Emerging Leaders program offered at Bethel
Article on An Unstoppable Force
Article on Mosaic and a vision for the world
Article on Ethos
Blogs of interns at Mosaic, here, here, and here.
Mosaic Navigator Eric Bryant’s blog , Eric’s latest blog.

AUDIO RESOURCES

Weekly podcasts
Lots of great teleseminars by Eric Bryant with the Origins Project cast
Alex McManus on blog talk radio – currently discussing ’strengths’
Exponentional Network 2009 podcast interview with Erwin McManus
Mosaic Life in Christ Talk: Erwin on Discipleship
Talks and interviews by Eric Bryant with McManus and friends.
Interview with Erwin on Christian Work at Home Moms
Erwin McManus session at Riverview church’s Big Weekend
Eric Bryant on Raising up leaders in Zurich
Radio Interview of Erwin McManus by Rodney Olson 2007
Erwin McManus at Upper Room Community on Chasing Daylight
James Robinson interviewing Erwin McManus on Soul Cravings and Uprising
Off the hook message on prayer by Erwin McManus
Jon Gordon story part 2 at Mosaic
Erwin McManus sharing about Jon Gordon deciding to follow Jesus
Rick Warren’s Podcast innovation interviewing Erwin McManus, Eric Bryant & Ralph Neighbor
Erwin McManus on Beauty Beauty at Mozaiek May 2007
Erwin McManus speaking at NewSong on Unmasking Mexico 2007
Interview here with Erwin McManus on the Drew Marshall show 2007
mp3 of Erwin McManus and a Buddhist on life purpose at Veritas 2006
California Baptist Seminary Chapel podcast with Erwin McManus
Erwin McManus at Mosaiek Church – A revolutoin of the soul A revolution of the soul
Alex McManus on a hitch hiker’s guide to the galaxy a hitch hiker’s guide to the galaxy @ Kensington 2006
Catalyst Interview Catalyst Interview with Erwin McManus 2006
Archived Podcast of Erwin McManus on Leadership
Making space for strange things to happen 2005
Erwin McManus Chapel @ California Baptist University 2005
Mosaic Leadership Advance Leadership Advance Message 2005
Erwin McManus – Prepare for Impact Prepare for Impact 2005
Erwin McManus The future has arrived @ Richland Hills Church 2004
C&MA 2004 Council Session 1 and Session 2 by Erwin McManus (both messages are on the second half of the mp3)
Parable of the Talents Parable of the talents by Erwin McManus @ Rock Harbour 2002
Audio sermons by Erwin McManus on Meaning, Community and Destiny
The Great Commission and Discipleship The great commission and discipleship by Erwin McManus @ Woodland Hills 2002
Erwin on The Fingerprint of God The Fingerprint of God @ The Veritas Forum 2001
Erwin on The Character Matrix Character Matrix @ The Veritas Forum 1999
Odeo - Seems to keep the last 10 or so messages archived from the podcast in case you missed any.

VIDEO RESOURCES

MosaicLA youtube channel
DreamLab Videos by Awaken
Erwin McManus on the Mosaic Alliance
Life Today interviews Erwin McManus on WideAwake
Erwin McManus & Eric Bryant at the first IdeaCamp
Several video clips of Erwin from rightnow.org
Erwin McManus on the most important thing to God
Erwin McManus on TBN
James Robinson interviewing Erwin McManus on Soul Cravings and Uprising
Willow Creek Arts 2007 Scribble highlights
Erwin McManus interviewing David Arcos Part1 and Part2
Erwin McManus clip at Catalyst Conference 2006
Over 20 video clips interviewing Erwin McManus on videovine including:
- The Biblical Model is to Disciple Unbelievers
- Communicating the Human Struggle in a Postmodern Context
- What one thing would you say to non-Christians?
- Small Groups and House Churches in a Postmodern Context
- Relevant Churches Transform Communities
Eric Bryant’s Executive Artiste video on youtube
Collection of Mosaic YouTube videos
A silly clip of the Mosaic five core values
Erwin McManus clip on taking one more step of faith
Quicktime video of Erwin McManus and a Buddhist on life purpose at Veritas
5 Messages by Erwin McManus in Korea on CGNTV 2006
Mosaic on CNN 2006
Mosaic dance clip during service
Television Evangelist Mosaic Rap video 2006
Chasing Daylight trailer from BlueFishTV
Alex McManus at APU Chapel 2005
100 Huntley Street interview of Erwin McManus2005
Awesome clips from UrbanPoets four video clips
Excellent Mosaic 2004 Recap Video
Erwin McManus Chapel 4 @ APU 2004
Erwin McManus Chapel 3 @ APU 2004
Excellent message by Erwin McManus summarizing Seizing your Divine Moment at Willow
Clips 1, 2, 3, 4 from Barbarian Way @ WillowCreek 2003
The Barbarian Way by Erwin McManus at Willow (not the famous Leadership summit one)
100 Huntely Street interview on Creativity and Spirituality 2003
Erwin McManus Chapel 2 @ APU 2003
Montage of Erwin McManus on Heroes 2003
Erwin McManus Chapel @ APU 2001
Erwin on The Fingerprint of God @ The Veritas Forum 2001
Erwin on Character Matrix @ The Veritas Forum 1999

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