Comments on: Ordination… http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/ Creativity, Faith, and Culture in the City Thu, 17 May 2012 21:18:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Ordination Part 2… | Solar Crash http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-23747 Ordination Part 2… | Solar Crash Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:36:11 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-23747 [...] As of this past weekend I’ve ‘done’ baptisms, communion, and a wedding, all without being ordained.  (You can see my previous thoughts on ordination adventures here) [...] [...] As of this past weekend I’ve ‘done’ baptisms, communion, and a wedding, all without being ordained.  (You can see my previous thoughts on ordination adventures here) [...]

]]> By: lon vining http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-13720 lon vining Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:27:25 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-13720 Lon, I came to your site because I saw my website linked to yours. Would love to meet you sometime. On the ordination thing, you guys better dig a bit deeper into scripture. I agree with the spirit of what you guys are saying about ordination as it is done by many denominations, i.e., it goes way beyond scripture's intent. However, per the scripture, it is clearly a practice that was described and proscribed in the NT. (and yes, it does open those necessary doors, too). It mentions this per Paul and Barnabus being "set apart" and hands laid on them to be sent out as missionaries in Acts, and then Paul later talks of the practice, in an official way, in his letter to Timothy. Much like the blessings recorded in the O.T., the laying on of hands symbolizes the transference of blessing from an individual or group of people onto an individual (in the case of the scape goat, it was the transference of a curse in the form of the guilt of the people). Anyhow, I would define ordination as the act of the local church in which they simply affirm God's call in someone's life, and give their official consent and blessing for that person to be sent out on their behalf as a minister of the Gospel. But, as you have said, the NT does not give any qualifications of seminary, age, etc. except to say, "do not hastily lay on hands." So, what denomination are you affiliated with that would take so long to be ordained? Lon, I came to your site because I saw my website linked to yours. Would love to meet you sometime. On the ordination thing, you guys better dig a bit deeper into scripture. I agree with the spirit of what you guys are saying about ordination as it is done by many denominations, i.e., it goes way beyond scripture’s intent. However, per the scripture, it is clearly a practice that was described and proscribed in the NT. (and yes, it does open those necessary doors, too). It mentions this per Paul and Barnabus being “set apart” and hands laid on them to be sent out as missionaries in Acts, and then Paul later talks of the practice, in an official way, in his letter to Timothy. Much like the blessings recorded in the O.T., the laying on of hands symbolizes the transference of blessing from an individual or group of people onto an individual (in the case of the scape goat, it was the transference of a curse in the form of the guilt of the people). Anyhow, I would define ordination as the act of the local church in which they simply affirm God’s call in someone’s life, and give their official consent and blessing for that person to be sent out on their behalf as a minister of the Gospel. But, as you have said, the NT does not give any qualifications of seminary, age, etc. except to say, “do not hastily lay on hands.” So, what denomination are you affiliated with that would take so long to be ordained?

]]> By: Lon http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-4964 Lon Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:14:23 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-4964 I tend to lean with you on this Parke... seems we need to leverage the systems sometimes, and I don't ever assume it's all going to as clean and ideal as I'd like it all. Jason - You've got a point - I see the overarching thrust of the NT as a breakaway from religious systems and as a communal connection to the living God ... ie priesthood of all believers, fellow saints, etc. And being 'set apart' as God's people far outweighs the technicalities in church procedures and ceremonies... biblically people are set apart for different things, often according to their gifting, ie. musicians and crafts, and yes, in the NT it seems limited to what we see as typical 'ministry' roles - but even with with that the NT is diverse, depending on how you slice things with apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, missionaries, servants, etc. all this to say that I don't think their is one holy tier of the ordained, or the set apart - there are many roles - and with modern ordination it seems to be lumped into one giant category that can be unfair to the 'minister' as it may place expectations outside of their unique gifting, and at times it's not fair to the people they lead either. and of course, it's different from a secretary, the NT is concerned with the work of the gospel and it's impact leading into eternity... and I am all for community affirmation, safeguards, life milestone markers, and such - but I still question if our current ordination process, and the current perceptions of the ordained in our own communities is what God intended. I've laid hands upon friends, prayed and affirmed Gods work and calling in their lives... does this mean they're ordained? or set apart? or do they need a denomination or a government policy to do so? or here's a question that just came to mind, when did the apostle Paul become ordained or set apart? wow, you got me thinking and going Jason... i'm sure i'm just scratching the surface... so significant, yes, but our contemporary mode of it all, i'm really iffy... I tend to lean with you on this Parke… seems we need to leverage the systems sometimes, and I don’t ever assume it’s all going to as clean and ideal as I’d like it all.

Jason – You’ve got a point – I see the overarching thrust of the NT as a breakaway from religious systems and as a communal connection to the living God … ie priesthood of all believers, fellow saints, etc. And being ‘set apart’ as God’s people far outweighs the technicalities in church procedures and ceremonies…

biblically people are set apart for different things, often according to their gifting, ie. musicians and crafts, and yes, in the NT it seems limited to what we see as typical ‘ministry’ roles – but even with with that the NT is diverse, depending on how you slice things with apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors, teachers, elders, deacons, missionaries, servants, etc.

all this to say that I don’t think their is one holy tier of the ordained, or the set apart – there are many roles – and with modern ordination it seems to be lumped into one giant category that can be unfair to the ‘minister’ as it may place expectations outside of their unique gifting, and at times it’s not fair to the people they lead either.

and of course, it’s different from a secretary, the NT is concerned with the work of the gospel and it’s impact leading into eternity… and I am all for community affirmation, safeguards, life milestone markers, and such – but I still question if our current ordination process, and the current perceptions of the ordained in our own communities is what God intended.

I’ve laid hands upon friends, prayed and affirmed Gods work and calling in their lives… does this mean they’re ordained? or set apart? or do they need a denomination or a government policy to do so? or here’s a question that just came to mind, when did the apostle Paul become ordained or set apart?

wow, you got me thinking and going Jason… i’m sure i’m just scratching the surface… so significant, yes, but our contemporary mode of it all, i’m really iffy…

]]> By: aaron http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-4963 aaron Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:12:03 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-4963 nice certificate. I couldn't agree more! No idea about Canada, i'm still trying to figure out the way of the southern states. nice certificate.
I couldn’t agree more!

No idea about Canada, i’m still trying to figure out the way of the southern states.

]]> By: Jason Allen http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-4959 Jason Allen Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:25:22 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-4959 How would you classify the setting people apart in the NT? Ordination isn't used, clearly, but it seems just as clear that this was significant. And more significant than ordaining secretaries and the like. There seemed to be something significant to the setting apart of leaders in the NT, or would you disagree? How would you classify the setting people apart in the NT?

Ordination isn’t used, clearly, but it seems just as clear that this was significant. And more significant than ordaining secretaries and the like. There seemed to be something significant to the setting apart of leaders in the NT, or would you disagree?

]]> By: Parke http://solarcrash.com/2008/06/ordination/comment-page-1/#comment-4955 Parke Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:45:47 +0000 http://solarcrash.com/?p=965#comment-4955 These days one of the biggest functions mine serves is to open doors to help people in need. Often ministries, government officials, jails and half-way houses will extend more grace and offer more help if they know I'm there to clearly help a person in need. Is it good or the best thing? I'm not sure. I was helping people before my ordination as well. But in our current US culture at least it's a significant benefit when serving hurting people so I take advantage of it. These days one of the biggest functions mine serves is to open doors to help people in need. Often ministries, government officials, jails and half-way houses will extend more grace and offer more help if they know I’m there to clearly help a person in need. Is it good or the best thing? I’m not sure. I was helping people before my ordination as well. But in our current US culture at least it’s a significant benefit when serving hurting people so I take advantage of it.

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