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	<title>Comments on: Radical church&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/</link>
	<description>Creativity, Faith, and Culture in the City</description>
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		<title>By: Noteworthy of 2008 &#124; Solar Crash</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-30312</link>
		<dc:creator>Noteworthy of 2008 &#124; Solar Crash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-30312</guid>
		<description>[...] preference, here were some noteworthy posts of 2008. Rock star pastors What I want Crippling them Radical Church Mushrooms Loneliness Creative Revolution in China Beincarnation Hunger Banquet Silent Sermon A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] preference, here were some noteworthy posts of 2008. Rock star pastors What I want Crippling them Radical Church Mushrooms Loneliness Creative Revolution in China Beincarnation Hunger Banquet Silent Sermon A [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Solar Crash: Best of January 2008 &#124; Solar Crash</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3162</link>
		<dc:creator>Solar Crash: Best of January 2008 &#124; Solar Crash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 06:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-3162</guid>
		<description>[...] Radical Church Crippling them Rock Star Pastors Mushrooms Loneliness Similar Posts...Rob Bell Resources by Lon on November 17th, 2006Updates... by Lon on October 12th, 2005Solar Crash: November round-up by Lon on December 7th, 2007   Share this post with others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Radical Church Crippling them Rock Star Pastors Mushrooms Loneliness Similar Posts&#8230;Rob Bell Resources by Lon on November 17th, 2006Updates&#8230; by Lon on October 12th, 2005Solar Crash: November round-up by Lon on December 7th, 2007   Share this post with others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3145</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-3145</guid>
		<description>Hey Marty, forgot to comment back on this one.  we could all work wiser... one thing that someone had just mentioned to me, was this idea of not having sabbath as a result of our hard work... but doing good as a result of sabbath.  Still, either way, i&#039;ve got to admit, sabbath is still something i&#039;m struggling over.  

i enjoy what i do, so sometimes i feel like my whole life is sabbath... but i think sabbath goes further, to not doing anything, and allowing god to really work.  i think sabbath truly practiced as an attitude and lifestyle, can really help escape this need to &#039;work harder&#039; radically different from the way the rest of the world operates...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Marty, forgot to comment back on this one.  we could all work wiser&#8230; one thing that someone had just mentioned to me, was this idea of not having sabbath as a result of our hard work&#8230; but doing good as a result of sabbath.  Still, either way, i&#8217;ve got to admit, sabbath is still something i&#8217;m struggling over.  </p>
<p>i enjoy what i do, so sometimes i feel like my whole life is sabbath&#8230; but i think sabbath goes further, to not doing anything, and allowing god to really work.  i think sabbath truly practiced as an attitude and lifestyle, can really help escape this need to &#8216;work harder&#8217; radically different from the way the rest of the world operates&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3089</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-3089</guid>
		<description>Good stuff -
I set out with the goal that I never wanted the &quot;church work&quot; take over family time. In our context the families in Ottumwa are in shambles. It became clear that one of our primary witnesses of Christ was going to be our family.
I can&#039;t remember missing more then one breakfest and one dinner a week in our first six months. Toby and I would get up and make waffles every morning. I championed bath time in the evening. I would gladly schedule meetings but 5:30-8:00pm were not an option.
Then the new year happened. The bed times got bumped back an hour. Everything was thrown off. Now three times a week I have something planned during bed time. I hate it! So I made some adjustments. I do family time during the day since I&#039;m &quot;working&quot; more in the evening. I still make 6 dinners a week and 5 lunches a week. Breakfest has a new rhythmn as does bath time and I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll change again in a few months as Lydia gets older.
I&#039;m aware that my time will always be stolen if I don&#039;t protect it.
I think your final sentence is the big one - work harder - produce results. I wish that equation was true but it isn&#039;t. Maybe it is work wiser - produce many more results and one of the biggest keys to working wiser is SABBATH! What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff -<br />
I set out with the goal that I never wanted the &#8220;church work&#8221; take over family time. In our context the families in Ottumwa are in shambles. It became clear that one of our primary witnesses of Christ was going to be our family.<br />
I can&#8217;t remember missing more then one breakfest and one dinner a week in our first six months. Toby and I would get up and make waffles every morning. I championed bath time in the evening. I would gladly schedule meetings but 5:30-8:00pm were not an option.<br />
Then the new year happened. The bed times got bumped back an hour. Everything was thrown off. Now three times a week I have something planned during bed time. I hate it! So I made some adjustments. I do family time during the day since I&#8217;m &#8220;working&#8221; more in the evening. I still make 6 dinners a week and 5 lunches a week. Breakfest has a new rhythmn as does bath time and I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll change again in a few months as Lydia gets older.<br />
I&#8217;m aware that my time will always be stolen if I don&#8217;t protect it.<br />
I think your final sentence is the big one &#8211; work harder &#8211; produce results. I wish that equation was true but it isn&#8217;t. Maybe it is work wiser &#8211; produce many more results and one of the biggest keys to working wiser is SABBATH! What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3085</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-3085</guid>
		<description>Hey Marty, thanks for honing in on that.  Maybe it&#039;s because I&#039;ve met very few balanced individuals.  I find some people just have a flat-out poor work ethic, and then there are those of us who are so sold out and passionate and willing to throw in everything we got, that we think that&#039;ll be the difference maker.  

In the past i&#039;ve had a reactionary response to perceived laggards in the church, where something within me says just you wait till i&#039;m running the ship, i&#039;ll show you how much  i&#039;m willing to put into it, and that&#039;ll inspire others to also throw in their very best, and so we&#039;ll be a new, more radical, more passionate church.  

&quot;lead with diligence&quot; is of course a more healthy statement.  It&#039;s not comparative like &#039;work harder&#039; and it carries with it a degree of integrity/honesty with yourself that hopefully avoids manically pouring your guts out for incremental differences.  

In light of this post, i guess i&#039;ve been wondering if there are healthier forms or structures where leaders can lead diligently and effectively and be at peace that they are being true to Jesus and being the church.

ie. i recently heard a podcast with craig groeschel talking about how he eats at home with his family 6 nights a week.  I wonder how many pastors of smaller or larger churches can say this, as they &#039;work harder&#039;, without necessarily producing more results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Marty, thanks for honing in on that.  Maybe it&#8217;s because I&#8217;ve met very few balanced individuals.  I find some people just have a flat-out poor work ethic, and then there are those of us who are so sold out and passionate and willing to throw in everything we got, that we think that&#8217;ll be the difference maker.  </p>
<p>In the past i&#8217;ve had a reactionary response to perceived laggards in the church, where something within me says just you wait till i&#8217;m running the ship, i&#8217;ll show you how much  i&#8217;m willing to put into it, and that&#8217;ll inspire others to also throw in their very best, and so we&#8217;ll be a new, more radical, more passionate church.  </p>
<p>&#8220;lead with diligence&#8221; is of course a more healthy statement.  It&#8217;s not comparative like &#8216;work harder&#8217; and it carries with it a degree of integrity/honesty with yourself that hopefully avoids manically pouring your guts out for incremental differences.  </p>
<p>In light of this post, i guess i&#8217;ve been wondering if there are healthier forms or structures where leaders can lead diligently and effectively and be at peace that they are being true to Jesus and being the church.</p>
<p>ie. i recently heard a podcast with craig groeschel talking about how he eats at home with his family 6 nights a week.  I wonder how many pastors of smaller or larger churches can say this, as they &#8216;work harder&#8217;, without necessarily producing more results.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3072</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-3072</guid>
		<description>You used the words &quot;work harder&quot; I&#039;d love to see you flesh this one out. Yesterday I was a part of commissioning service and the words &quot;lead with diligence&quot; jumped out at me. I want to grab a hold of what that means and live it out. I wonder how closely related it is to your &quot;work harder&quot;

Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You used the words &#8220;work harder&#8221; I&#8217;d love to see you flesh this one out. Yesterday I was a part of commissioning service and the words &#8220;lead with diligence&#8221; jumped out at me. I want to grab a hold of what that means and live it out. I wonder how closely related it is to your &#8220;work harder&#8221;</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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		<title>By: bradley grinnen</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2888</link>
		<dc:creator>bradley grinnen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2888</guid>
		<description>lon,

sounds like some deep spiritual formation which can only happen in community.  now, what does that look like?  does spiritual formation have to be &#039;radical&#039;?  i mean, isn&#039;t it radical if it goes way beyond the &#039;great sermons&#039;, &#039;technilogically&#039;, etc.  returning to some of the ancient ways.  i don&#039;t know, just some thoughts.

brad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lon,</p>
<p>sounds like some deep spiritual formation which can only happen in community.  now, what does that look like?  does spiritual formation have to be &#8216;radical&#8217;?  i mean, isn&#8217;t it radical if it goes way beyond the &#8216;great sermons&#8217;, &#8216;technilogically&#8217;, etc.  returning to some of the ancient ways.  i don&#8217;t know, just some thoughts.</p>
<p>brad</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2886</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2886</guid>
		<description>Brandon - totally true, the forms are just about meaningless when we&#039;ve lost our bearings and veered from Jesus ourselves.  

That being said, what might a core group of radical followers of Jesus do to be the church and lead others to also be fully committed followers?  Is there something more than amazing sermons, more than great examples (thought this one is huge), more than opportunities to ask questions and serve...?  maybe that&#039;s really it, but I guess that&#039;s what i&#039;ve been wondering.

Aaron, thanks for tuning in - definitely add me, please do!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon &#8211; totally true, the forms are just about meaningless when we&#8217;ve lost our bearings and veered from Jesus ourselves.  </p>
<p>That being said, what might a core group of radical followers of Jesus do to be the church and lead others to also be fully committed followers?  Is there something more than amazing sermons, more than great examples (thought this one is huge), more than opportunities to ask questions and serve&#8230;?  maybe that&#8217;s really it, but I guess that&#8217;s what i&#8217;ve been wondering.</p>
<p>Aaron, thanks for tuning in &#8211; definitely add me, please do!</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2881</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2881</guid>
		<description>I like what i&#039;m reading.
can i add you to my blog role?
http://www.blog.aaronhavens.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what i&#8217;m reading.<br />
can i add you to my blog role?<br />
<a href="http://www.blog.aaronhavens.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog.aaronhavens.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Donaldson</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2879</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Donaldson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2879</guid>
		<description>Great discussion already,  I would concur with the thoughts and direction.  It seems the heart is to have a radical people, and the question is:  how do we lead and raise up radical passionate followers of Christ?  and Can these new forms or new tools help us do that better?

It definitely starts with us.  Lon, you definitely have that heart, and I think that a leader that is consistently and passionately following Christ and seeking his heart and will can aggressively go after new forms and tools to convey it.  The tension that follows I believe is a good tension that reminds us as leaders that the form and the tools are never the answer in themselves.  Instead, they are just a means to an end.  They can come and go...and &lt;strong&gt;they will&lt;strong&gt;, so we hold loosely to our forms and our strategies.  But Jesus will never change, and we can hold tightly to the goal of being and leading people to be fully committed followers of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion already,  I would concur with the thoughts and direction.  It seems the heart is to have a radical people, and the question is:  how do we lead and raise up radical passionate followers of Christ?  and Can these new forms or new tools help us do that better?</p>
<p>It definitely starts with us.  Lon, you definitely have that heart, and I think that a leader that is consistently and passionately following Christ and seeking his heart and will can aggressively go after new forms and tools to convey it.  The tension that follows I believe is a good tension that reminds us as leaders that the form and the tools are never the answer in themselves.  Instead, they are just a means to an end.  They can come and go&#8230;and <strong>they will</strong><strong>, so we hold loosely to our forms and our strategies.  But Jesus will never change, and we can hold tightly to the goal of being and leading people to be fully committed followers of Christ.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2874</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2874</guid>
		<description>Bradley - right on, as always, it starts with us.  

just a guy - thanks for saying that.  something i suspected, but needed to hear from another person as well.  thanks so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bradley &#8211; right on, as always, it starts with us.  </p>
<p>just a guy &#8211; thanks for saying that.  something i suspected, but needed to hear from another person as well.  thanks so much.</p>
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		<title>By: Just a Guy</title>
		<link>http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/radical-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2867</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solarcrash.com/2008/01/23/radical-church/#comment-2867</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Just because our church might be more creative, more current, more engaging, work harder, be more balanced, be more missional, more tech-savvy, more relational, and on and on… I wonder if these changes would still just be incremental?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course they will... Jesus and the early church pretty much set a high standard for &quot;radical&quot; and I&#039;d wager that anyone who comes along these days with something &quot;radical&quot; to that degree is probably someone to be a little weary of.

At the end of the day, I think a lot of what you are thinking about is merely &quot;form.&quot;  From what I&#039;ve read on your blog you&#039;re not talking about a church that has some new crazy take on scripture or doctrine, but rather you are seeking to plant something that maybe looks and feels a little bit different.  That, I think, is just form.  The message stays the same, the mode changes.

To that end, I think most change will be incremental... and that&#039;s not bad.

If the church you plants preaches and lives the gospel in the world... then go for it man!  We need a whole lot more of those!  Heck, now days that &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt;  pretty radical!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just because our church might be more creative, more current, more engaging, work harder, be more balanced, be more missional, more tech-savvy, more relational, and on and on… I wonder if these changes would still just be incremental?</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course they will&#8230; Jesus and the early church pretty much set a high standard for &#8220;radical&#8221; and I&#8217;d wager that anyone who comes along these days with something &#8220;radical&#8221; to that degree is probably someone to be a little weary of.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, I think a lot of what you are thinking about is merely &#8220;form.&#8221;  From what I&#8217;ve read on your blog you&#8217;re not talking about a church that has some new crazy take on scripture or doctrine, but rather you are seeking to plant something that maybe looks and feels a little bit different.  That, I think, is just form.  The message stays the same, the mode changes.</p>
<p>To that end, I think most change will be incremental&#8230; and that&#8217;s not bad.</p>
<p>If the church you plants preaches and lives the gospel in the world&#8230; then go for it man!  We need a whole lot more of those!  Heck, now days that <i>is</i>  pretty radical!</p>
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